A Debate on the E-Democracy Forum: Is Dyna Sluyter Complaining Too Much about Crime?
Dyna Sluyter is a white woman who lives by herself in a house located in the Hawthorne neighborhood of north Minneapolis. She has repeatedly posted messages on the e-democracy forum complaining about crime and especially about the fact that the city aggressively targets homeowners for peeling paint and other minor infractions while it allows violent crime to proceed unchecked. This complaint irritates people on the discussion list, mostly DFLers, who have bought into the problem property concept of crime that is promoted by public-relations specialists with the Minneapolis police department and by the Star Tribune newspaper. The racial aspect of crime is something that no one wants to discuss; and therefore the focus of attention is on property owners rather than the gangs of young men who perpetrate most of the crime.
When Dyna Sluyter posed a message in late July, she was immediately attacked by others on the list. Bill McGaughey and others made postings defending Sluyter. As the discussion went back and forth, people gradually warmed up to Sluyters complaint. A suggestion was made to hold a barbeque picnic in Dyna Sluyters yard, presumably to show solidarity with her. Sluyter herself threw cold water on that idea, arguing that a picnic would do no good with respect to the crime problem while it might invite retaliation by the criminals after the picnickers have left.
of thread: Had to board up my house today - and goin with the flow
Dyna Sluyter July 26, 2008 10:32 p.m.
having 5 windows broken in but a couple weeks by Minneapolis'
criminals, I had to do something. So I measured this morning for
plexiglass and also for more fencing, then headed off to Fleet Farm.
Plexiglass prices have gone through the roof- figure $5 a square foot
for anything durable, that'd set me back a couple hundred dollars I
don't have. Back to the fence option- the broken windows are in the
part of the yard I don't have fenced in. I've got some left over
fencing and posts from past projects, but not really enough to do the
job properly, and I'm clean out of cement. Well, fence is up over $1
a foot and I need at least 50 feet- so I won't be doing any fencing
until the stuff goes on sale I guess. They did have cement on sale
though, so I brought home 360 pounds. Clearly my options were
narrowing to boarding my house, so I picked up a few small bits of
the time I got home it was past noon. I'd been tempted to kluge
together some fencing to keep the criminals away from the windows
'til I can afford more fencing. But Peace Foundation had their "Flow"
arts event scheduled for 4, and it ain't rocket science that half the
cops on the Northside would be syphoned outa my hood to protect that
event. So I was looking at a couple days work to put up fencing with
maybe a 3 hour work window until the 'hood became too dangerous to
work outside. Clearly boarding was my only option. It don't look
pretty, but it's honest- crime is so out of control in Minneapolis
that citizens have to board their own homes. I hurt to cut each board
and drive each screw, but I had no other choice to protect grandma's
over the last few days I've gotten some off list comments
suggesting that I should sell my home in crime ridden Minneapolis,
get out of town, and shut up. Well, a couple years ago I could have
done that and darn near did. Since then, home prices in outstate
Minnesota have risen as retirees return to the country and more
Minneapolitans flee out of control crime. Meanwhile, the house I
could have sold a couple years back for $100,000 is now worthless.
North Minneapolis is such an undesirable collection of neighborhoods
that good landlords can't find renters and homes go on the auction
block at less than half market value- and bring not a single bid. So
no, I can't afford to move and Minneapolis is stuck with me.
Then again, now that I've had to board my house it may be illegal
for me to reside in it- can anyone from the city give me some
clarification? So perhaps the city is about to stick some bright
colored paper on my front door and make me homeless- R.T., got any
space on the couch?
boarded up Hawthorne,
As expected, saw 4 squads at "Flow", but didn't see a single
one while I was boarding up my house. Seems like artists are some
kind of protected species in the city- maybe I should become one? Not
that Minneapolis is a good place for artists... unless your media is
Gene Swanson July 27, 2008 10:54 a.m.
Dyna, I do not know you personally, but from your posts I have gleaned that you have available living options outside of Mpls. I am not sure why you do not avail yourself of this.
I also do not understand why you seem to be the only person to post on this forum with the amount of housing damage. I have never seen anyone else post as often about neighbor problems, broken windows, etc. I have to wonder what sort of karma you are projecting that results in you being a victim to this time after time? Even looking through the 4th precinct police reports and comments on the 4PAC web site, I find no one person that has been targeted as you claim to be.
I do not understand this at all. If you are willing to work in a cooperative manner with CCP-SAFE, 4th Precinct officers and block clubs, I would like to think you could resolve some of these issues. If, in fact, you are under such threats of violence and home invasion, I would encourage you to consider a permanent boarding of your house and a move to an area where you will be safe.
I am wondering if your neighbors have the same degree of damage to their homes and share the same fears that you do for your personal safety. Or, are you the only victim on the entire block?
Thank you, you need not respond
Caty Royce July 27, 2008 11:32 a.m.
anyone ever see "groundhog day?" thats what dyna's post remind
the same old crap over and over again. BOOOORRRRIIIIIINNNNNGGGGG!!!!!!!!
Bill McGaughey July 27, 2008 4:12 p.m.
Dyna's postings may be hard to take but, unless someone's prepared to say she's making this up, it's something that we need to hear.
Nikki Carlson July 27, 2008 5:13 p.m.
appreciate Dyna's posts. My neighborhood is extremely low-crime. We have
occasional home and car break-ins, and a few years ago we had several
garages burn in one night by arson. But on balance, about as low-crime as
you can get. We have only a few foreclosures, and no vacant/abandoned homes
that I can see.
neighborhood may as well be on a different planet, things are so
different. I read the news and know the numbers, but I am glad to get her
personal stories. So thanks. If I had any ideas other than supporting
elected officials and organizations that are working on these problems, I
would share them. -Nikki Carlson
John Harris July 27, 2008 6:08 p.m.
On 7/27/08, Bill McGaughey wrote:
'Dyna's postings may be hard to take but, unless someone's prepared to say she's making this up, it's something that we need to hear.'
I say she is making this up:
'North Minneapolis is such an undesirable collection of neighborhoods'
walk thru 2 or 3 north side neighborhoods every day and they are not
undesirable. They are not kenwood, but not undesirable. I wish she would stop attributing what happens in her neighborhood to all of the north side.
Dyna Sluyter July 28, 2008 12.08 a.m.
On Jul 27, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Christine Painter (?) wrote:
I do not know you personally, but from your posts I have
gleaned that you have available living options outside of Mpls.'
I noted, housing prices have tanked in Minneapolis while they're
still rising in rural Minnesota. Thusly I can't afford to move
'I am not sure why you do not avail yourself of this.'
have a friend who has a huge house in Starbuck, Minnesota that
lets me stay there anytime I want. But of course she can change her
mind, sell the property, etc. any time she wants too. Right now she's
considering closing it down this winter due to the rising heating
costs. I came close to buying a second building she owns, but there
were problems with ascertaining the property line and it was more
hassle than it was worth to have it surveyed.
also do not understand why you seem to be the only person to post
on this forum with the amount of housing damage.'
As the saying goes, "you can't make this stuff up". I've actually
had less damage by criminals than most in this neighborhood. The
houses on both sides of me fell to arson. The next one over was
probably torched by an evicted tenant, then shoddily repaired. It
then became a drug house and was trashed inside and out by a
succession of tenants. The landlady has finally learned and gotten a
new property manager who is screening tenants, but no decent tenants
want to live in North Minneapolis. The gas there was just shut off
and I suspect it will fall into foreclosure. The next house up is
owned by a retiree in his 70s, he can show you a plethora of bullet
holes in his house. Past that are two abandoned four plexes that were
the scene of previous drug and gang activity. At the end of the block
are two more four plexes that the landlord who lives right up the
street poured a fortune into... and was rewarded with a massive
property tax increase. Shortly after one of the buildings was
rewired, thieves pulled all the wiring out of the house and it had to
be rewired again. He's having trouble finding good tenants too. Going
the other direction from my abode my first neighbor is some excellent
long term tenants in a city owned scattered site house. Beyond that
are two foreclosed duplexes, the first squatted by a dumb scrapper (I
rescued a working iMac from him that he was trying to bust up for
copper) with a history of domestic abuse, his partner none the less
stays with him, and a variable number of fellow squatters. Despite
the power being disconnected, he's jumpered the meter and has lights
on day and night. The next abandoned house, less than 100 feet from
me, is squatted by some gangbanger looking types. I've noted some
probable prostitution and dealing out of there, and they have way too
nice a cars for homeless folks. Past a couple more houses, one again
empty and the next home to a nice hispanic family, is another
foreclosed home squatted by more gangbanger looking types.
I have never seen anyone else post as often about neighbor
problems, broken windows, etc.
because few people in this neighborhood have been able to
scale the digital divide and join us here. I have a neighbor a few
blocks away who posts here occasionally. She's had her new van
torched by gangbangers in retaliation for calling the police and has
been repeatedly been threatened. Another neighbor was assaulted by
gangbangers when he tried to get them off his corner. A few blocks
north of me a blogger who goes by the handle "Johnny Northside" had
his tires slashed after standing up to the gangbangers. He's lucky-
his neighbor had his late model pickup truck torched.
have to wonder what sort of karma you are projecting that results
in you being a victim to this time after time?'
you now sink to blaming the victim... Just what sort of "karma"
prevents crime? And as several of my neighbors are being victimized
by criminals as much as I and worse, do we all have bad "karma"?
What do you suggest we do to improve our "karma"... Inquiring minds
want to know.
looking through the 4th precinct police reports and comments
on the 4PAC web site, I find no one person that has been targeted
as you claim to be.'
precinct reports are just the tip of the iceberg of Northside
crime- there is such as volume of crime here that a comprehensive
weekly report would nearly fill a book. Remember that in June just
one Northside neighborhood, Hawthorne, had 81 serious crimes such as
rape, aggravated assault, etc..
do not understand this at all. If you are willing to work in a
cooperative manner with CCP-SAFE, 4th Precinct officers and block
clubs, I would like to think you could resolve some of these issues.'
been working with them, but we and the police have been
overwhelmed by the sheer volume of criminals here. We had a block
club meeting a week ago and after begging had an attendance of four.
We decided that we didn't have enough support to put on an NNO block
party this year. This is typical- on many blocks there are just a
handful of adults who are not involved in crime.
in fact, you are under such threats of violence and home
invasion, I would encourage you to consider a permanent boarding of
Minneapolis makes that impractical with a $6000 fine
if you board your house for over 60 days. That hefty fine assures
that most boarded homes will never be rehabbed and returned to the
'and a move to an area where you will be safe.'
Well, I could afford a trailer, and the street in front of the
mayor's house is probably the best policed place in town... Think
R.T.'d mind if I park out front.?
am wondering if your neighbors have the same degree of damage to
their homes and share the same fears that you do for your personal
safety. Or, are you the only victim on the entire block?'
Again, many of my neighbors have suffered even worse damage.
you, you need not respond
not about to shut up- even in poor neighborhoods, children have
the right to play without being interrupted by drug dealers, hookers,
and worse. Children should have not have to go to charter schools
miles away because it's to dangerous to walk home from their
neighborhood school. Seniors shouldn't have to pay for cabs to go a
few blocks because it's too dangerous to walk. In the past few days
within a few blocks of me one man was murdered and another was darn
near. Within my adult lifetime we had less than a murder a month in
Minneapolis... Now we think crime has dropped when the murder rate
drops below one a week.
And Gene, what neighborhood do you live in?
marking another murder in Hawthorne,
Kay Royce July 28, 2008 7:21 a.m.
On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Bill McGaughey wrote:
postings may be hard to take but, unless someone's prepared to say she's making
this up, it's something that we need to hear.'
disagree, we don't need to hear the same message over and over again laced with
nothing by negativity with no response to suggested support. at least
i don't, i won't be reading dyna's stuff no more, delete immediately and any
thread related to it. so this will be the last time i paricipate on this thread.
Nikki Carlson July 28, 2008 9:46 a.m.
again to Dyna for posting. I think some of this dissonance comes from the vastly
different experiences people have by neighborhood. I understand households
in Bancroft south or Lind Bohanon north have about double the average
incomes of Hawthorne, and a much different mix of uses, different histories,
fewer strip clubs, certainly lower crime, etc.
I do agree with the person who wants us to be careful not to paint all of north with the same brush. Most of the neighborhoods in north are stable and safe, and some are quite successful, and sometimes the whole area gets a bum rap. Of course, even within neighborhoods like Hawthorne and Near North, there are better areas.
Since I know Dyna and where she lives, I know she is telling the truth, and I appreciate her pointing out some of the city regulations that are designed to promote redevelopment but actually can be a hindrance. Thank you also for trying to stick it out on the north side. If everyone simply moves out, as some here have suggested you do, there will be no solution whatsoever.
I also appreciate this forum as a place where from time to time, people can simply share their (Mpls-specific) troubles and find a sypathetic ear.
W. Brandon Lacy Campos July 28, 2008 10:20 a.m.
I am all about sharing your woes from time to time. But continuously sharing problems without sharing solutions means that you are a part of the problem. Dyna by declaring the Northside a dead zone, which is ridiculous, is part of the problem. Particularly as a white woman on the Northside crying wolf again and again and again. Unfortunately, her voice is amplified by her privilege. I was just on 8th and Washburn where my friend Nicole lives, happily raising two children. Her parents live on 10th and Russell, where they raised all of their children and still live. I grew up on the northside in the early 90s and my first job was at the Target on West Broadway when I was 15. I had to walk from Target to Broadway and Emerson to catch a bus home. I passed by the working girls every night. But in two years walking several blocks to the bus, after dark, being an extremely unimposing individual, I NEVER had a problem. This was before West Broadway had even begun to think about redevelopment. I also know lots of folks that did have problems. Is their experience more valid than mine? Unfortunately fear, and folks that react in the ways that Dyna reacts, make it so.
I am all about folks expressing their invidual experiences but when an individual takes their experiences with, say, an Asian person and then paints all Asian people with the same brush...we call it racism. Dyna is doing the same thing but geographically and it is just as ugly and denies the good work, committment, and humanity of the people all around her not just surviving but thriving on the Northside. And what more, is it denies, for example, that many of my friends that went to high school on the Northside (I graduated from Henry) have made conscious decisions, after graduating from college, to live on the Northside and raise families there
Lacy Campos--a proud product of the Northside
Quita-B-Northside Belmares July 28, 2008 10:20 a.m.
When I think of Dyna I imagine her home cold and uninviting. I think of being young and there was always one "haunted" house in the neighborhood. Some you had to hold your breath when you walked by so the ghosts wouldn't know you were there. Some of the little boys teased the people there with flaming feces and TP. These broken windows sounds like the retalliation of juveniles coming back after wagging your finger and shooing them off your grass. If a real criminal broke your windows it would be to gain access to your valuables.
When I moved out of an apartment and into my home I wanted a dog to be home when I am not. So I looked at Craig's and found a cute puppy. She's grown now and probably a little scary looking. She's some kind of pit bull mix. I walk her at least once a day and she plays outside and I have guys walk by my home all the time and say she's really pretty but they know they aren't stepping foot in my yard. All I'm saying is a beware of dog sign or a NRA sign in your yard is an effective tool.
Bill McGaughey July 28, 2008 11:21 a.m.
I cant believe some of this discussion about Dyna Sluyters problems in the Hawthorne neighborhood. The woman came home from a trip and found two windows of her home were broken - added to three others that were previously smashed. There were fifteen gunshots in her neighborhood in the previous week.
And what kind of response do we get from some posters on this list? That shes asking for it. Sluyter is an evil witch living in a haunted house that high-spirited youth love to hate. Because she is white, shes a privileged person who ought to wear a kick me sign on her back. She brought all this on herself and really ought to move. Shes part of the problem because she testifies to her own situation and does not offer solutions. What drivel! What complete nonsense!
As I previously wrote, if you think Sluyters lying, then say so and be prepared to prove it. Otherwise, please accept that she is a crime victim and deserves just a bit of sympathy.
If anything could prove that our political culture is broken, it is some of these ignorant, self-righteous postings about Dyna Sluyter. Take crime seriously; it could happen to you.
Quita-B-Northside Belmares July 28, 2008 11:39 a.m.
I say I want answers re: the Mpls PD payout and I am calling Dolan a ranting racist. I share an anecdote about haunted houses and I am calling Dyna a lying witch.
It seems Bill likes to take comments and blow them out of proportion to make people seem crazy and delusional. I think it's the other way around.
If Bill was comfortable and secure with his opinions he wouldn't need to overreact to every little comment that doesn't go along with his thinking or help further his political career.
Wizard Marks July 28, 2008 11:40 a.m.
Dyna has been saying the same thing for over five years and doing exactly nothing to change her situation. People are tired of hearing it. We believe her, but we are still tired of hearing it.
Ray Rolfe July 28, 2008 1:15 p.m.
Peace this week, people.
David Brauer (Forum Administrator) July 28, 2008 14:38 p.m.
Please don't feed the troll.
In other words, focus on issues, not nastygrams.
There are legit issues here, but also flame bait. Please separate the former and ignore the latter, please.
Leigh Combs July 28, 2008 4:48 p.m.
to your rooms for a time out!
plant trees and mirrors
Dyna Sluyter July 29, 2008 10:21 p.m.
I haven't joined the majority of the list that seems to think
that out of control crime is a small price to pay for ready access to
drugs and hookers, and the right to drive drunk as a skunk on our
just put in over 100 feet of six foot tall fence, pretty much
pushing my fenceline out to the property line. The only place
criminals can even touch my house is the front door, and that's steel
with no windows. I've denied criminals access to over a thousand
square feet of space to do their business and hide from police. Our
government gives subsidies for "transit oriented development" and
insulating homes from airport noise... Why is there no subsidy for
citizens that create "defensible spaces" by denying criminals habitant?
up the block, the squatting scrappers/hookers/drug dealers have
easy access to unboarded foreclosed buildings. And why weren't those
buildings properly secured by boarding? Probably because our city
charges a $6000 fine for boarding a building. I know, boarded
buildings make the neighborhood look abandoned... But who are we
fooling? Meanwhile, my neighbor waits for an hour for our
understaffed police department to escort her into her apartment to
get her property without being attacked by an abusive spouse. Is it
any wonder law abiding citizens are fleeing Minneapolis?
my 70ish neighbor on oxygen is being harassed by inspections...
hanging on in Hawthorne,
Guy Gambrill July 31, 2008 2:09 a.m.
I have said it before and I'll say it again, just as the gentleman who called
out on your statistical citations for the 4th precinct...which were so very, very wrong.
Accountability, Dyna, means you can't just pull Stats out of the ether without backing
of any sort whatsoever. Your citation, for example, that the Northside has the highest
concentration of ex-offenders with a sex conviction in the State is wrong, for one thing.
That dubious honor, in the Metro, goes to Powderhorn Park. The stat that 60% of the
adults in one North-side neighborhood is also dead wrong. Even the African-American
Men's Project Compendium (which is by far and away the largest estimate of data
on such things said 44% of Black men in Minneapolis, between the ages of 18 and
were arrested during one year) is widely contested.
I'll call it what it is, irresponsible. Show me where, Dyna, you pull this stuff out
of would you? It is BS, pure and simple. You pull out these stats to suit your own
agenda which, I fear, is as Brandon states, "it allows you to play the tragic heroine"
and garners attention to you, personally.
have you oppressed? Ummm..that would be the large numbers of black men
who get arrested every year in Minneapolis, many of whom are simply guilty of nothing
at all, because fools like you think it is fun getting attention for stuff like this.
The Government has done just fine with putting folks in jail, Dyna. To the tune
of a 600% increase in the past 28 years. Again, a 45% increase in our State in
the past 5....140,000 in community corrections this year...now that is hardly slacking
in terms of locking 'em all up, now is it?
ask for respect, Dyna, and grant none. You pull out stats from God Knows
where and some people, unfortunately, listen to that. You don't bother to check
anything out and your plaints are based solely on your personal bias and opinions.
I have asked you many, many times to provide some reference points for your
many blurts on this range of topics, but you ignore those requests continually.
are not concerned with whether you are correct or not and unwilling to listen
to anything or to entertain any factual data that indicate that you are incorrect.
This is all about you getting attention. Frankly, it is rather pathetic and sad.
I promise that, from here on out, I will ignore you. It is a waste of time. There
is no room to have a constructive discussion with you...you are too filled with
bias and resolved to blind yourself to quantifiable realities. I conclude that it
is a waste of time to continue to try to discuss these things with you here or
in any other venue....you are a lightning rod for negativity and alarmist rhetoric...
not worth the time. There will be nothing usable that will come of it.
a hobby or something, this one is tiring and simply not worth the time.
I won't waste another ounce of cyber ink on you.
Dyna Sluyter July 31, 2008 10:03 p.m.
no progress in securing the Northside, I'm headed to Starbuck
for the month of august at least, and probably through the november
elections. I'd hoped to stay in Minneapolis to help with some of the
nearby DFL campaigns like Ashwin Madia's for congress in the suburbs
just to our west. But it's simply gotten too dangerous to live in
North Minneapolis, and I can't afford to keep replacing windows either.
I'm not the first person, and certainly not the first DFLer, to flee
Minneapolis. While our mayor has been running around campaigning for
Obama, his ability as a big city democratic mayor to "deliver" a
block of democratic votes decreases with every DFLer that flees
Minneapolis. Ditto for campaign volunteers- I've been asked twice in
the last 24 hours two come down to the Ellison campaign office and
fill their empty phone bank seats. Recent canvassing tells the full
story, with canvassers reporting multiple vacant homes on most
Northside blocks. The Ellison campaign had hoped to "Explode the
Vote" getting 20,000 more DFL voters to the polls than in 2006. Looks
like they'll be lucky just to equal the 2006 DFL vote. Hopefully the
folks on the Obama transition team who'll be doling out appointments
won't notice how few votes R.T. delivers...
Starbuck ain't exactly political podunk. The I-29
corridor is becoming one of the political fulcrums of America...
While Obama will coast to an easy win in Minnesota, North Dakota is
in play, and closer to Starbuck than Minneapolis. There's competitive
local races out there to, with a chance to retire republican office
holders instead of feud with other DFLers in this one party town.
It's also a pleasure to work with DFLers who haven't elevated PC to
an art form and don't have panic attacks over radio control model
cars, never mind motorcycles.
goodbye, Minneapolis... And I won't miss your criminals or
David Brauer July 31, 2008 1:12 p.m.
12:08 AM -0700 7/31/08, Guy Gambill wrote:
Dyna, I have said it before and I'll say it again,
I won't waste another ounce of cyber ink on you.
And we'll all be thankful for that, Guy.
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
Constance A. Sullivan
Minneapolis, MN 55414
Folks, the below is excessive personalization. I've tolerated Dyna becoming the center of discussion because she's put herself there, but let's avoid excessively vituperative posts (civility) and piling on. Please.
Jim Graham August 1, 2008 1:33 a.m.
We could throw a List "meet and greet" and barbeque at Dyna's. Block off the street and have a party. I'll bring aWeber and someBulgogi, any other takers?All it takes is a little moral responsibility, rather than empty rhetoric. I am sure Barb Lickness and Carol Pass would come for the "patrol" and party. How about others?
Bill McGaughey August 1, 2008 11:15 a.m.
Last night, around midnight, a group of young thugs drove down the alley in back of my house and apartment and fired fifteen shots into cars and through windows in the apartment narrowly missing a woman inside. I'm told the same group is driving down Penn Avenue shooting out tires.
I'm sorry. We need more than block clubs and do-it-yourself defense. We need professional help. These roving wolf packs must be defeated. People are scared.
Sarah Bergen August 1, 2008 2:03 p.m.
'Dyna is someone looking for help, not that leader. She should not
be condemned for not being that leader...they need
is to have a couple of people willing to fight, and they will come out and take
back their community. Dyna clearly is not one of those couple, she is crying
for help and looking for that "couple of people" she can depend on to help her'.
I think this is one of the most insightful comments regarding this issue that I have read thus far (in addition to Annissa's post). I have also experienced this in other situations---people blaming the messenger rather than doing something about the content of the message.
I think the idea of having a barbque at Dyna's house is a great idea. My family would love to attend, and maybe take a walk over to Anissa's house while we are in the area. We can bring meat, beverages, and whatever veggies our CSA contains that week.
Dyna, are you willing to host a barbeque in your yard? Is someone willing to plan it?
Sara in Powderhorn
Jill Laxen August 1, 2008 2:33 p.m.
I'd be willing to attend and bring something to share (besides my jaundiced wit) but it sounds like Dyna won't be around through August. I could bring my two male offspring or my twoschnauzers - whichever is more intimidating to potential party-crashers...
Dyna Sluyter August 3, 2008 9:50 p.m.
Aug 2, 2008, at 12:35 PM, Guy Gambill wrote:
'And I would be willing to bring 20 or so Army and Marine Corps veterans...maybe that would impress the neighborhood into leaving Dyna alone and ending this whole thing once and for all.
The vets might do the trick, provided they're armed and can stay for
a while. The BBQ has been tried and failed- as soon as the event is
over the criminals just go back to business as usual. Besides that,
they'll eat up all your BBQ.
back in Hawthorne tonight, then off to Farm Fest...
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